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The Daily Bread Mailbag returns with Stephen “Breadman” Edwards tackling topics such as Manny Pacquiao vs. Antonio Margarito, Demetrius Andrade, Janibek, Jake Paul vs. Rahman, Jaron Ennis, Joe Joyce, more
How are you doing Breadman? What would you say are some of the most badass things you have seen boxers to do in the ring current all time and in the last 10 years? One of my favorite moments was right before the start of the second Tarver vs Roy Jones where the referee asks them if they any questions and Tarver replies ” I got a question you got any excuses tonight Roy” and then Tarver ko’s Jones in the 2nd round to avenge what he believed was a questionable win for Jones in the 1st fight. The other one I that loved was when Erik Morales went southpaw on Pacquiao in the last 2 minutes of there first fight and clowned him and dared Pacquiao to ko him. Fury’s miraculous recovery in the 12 round and turning the tide against Wilder in the 1st has to be one of the best moments in recent years. How do you feel about trash talk in boxing , does it give a significant advantage to the better sh!t talker, should it be discouraged or encouraged? Who do you think were the best trash talkers in boxing and what are some of the most memorable or funniest lines?
Bread’s Response: You named some bad ass stuff. Fury getting up from the knockdown vs Wilder changed the course of boxing history. Had Wilder won that 1st fight by ko, there most likely would not have been a rematch because there would not have been a controversial draw. And Fury would not be viewed now as a HOF and possible ATG. That was bad ass! And I’m glad I was live to see it.
I was just talking about Tarver’s ko of Jones in the gym. That really hurt me. Roy Jones Jr. was my guy. I loved him as a fighter. But Tarver wanted the smoke and he delivered big. All great boxers do bad ass things. So I could name literally thousands of cases. But I will name a few.
Muhammad Ali struggled with Ken Norton and Joe Frazier. George Foreman kod both in 2 rounds apiece. Ali called Foreman out. Predicted he would beat him. Mocked him. Went into the fight as a big underdog. Then he sat up against the ropes with the strongest man in boxing history and let him punch on him. Then he stopped him. It’s probably the greatest WIN in boxing history. Imagine how highly Foreman would be regarded if he kod Ali along with Frazier and Norton in the best era in heavyweight history.
Manny Pacquioa fought Antonio Margarito n 8 oz gloves. In boxing fights that both men weigh over 147lb are in 10 oz gloves unless both fighters agree to 8oz gloves.. Pacquioa agreed to fight the much bigger man in the smaller gloves and pretty much put his eye out. That was gangster!
Azumah Nelson was thought to have gotten a gift draw vs ATG Jeff Fenech. So Nelson agrees to the rematch in Australia, Fenech’s home country. Nelson goes to Australia puts on a counterpunching clinic and kos a great fighter and stops his big for 4 division titles.
I feel trash talking is a real thing in boxing. Not just to intimidate your opponents. But to make them fight angry and unfocused. If you add on social media, this is a real thing and it effects some fighters.
Hello Breadman ,
It seems the major players at MW are Charlo , GGG and Andrade . What do you think about Janibek Alimkahnuly. Does he pass the eyeball test . He must be pretty good , Munguia turned down a fight with him . I think a great fight for him would be Chris Eubank Jr . GGG is aged out , and Andrade may be moving up . A fight with Charlo would be a great fight . The MW division needs some new life . Charlo and Andrade could have fought each other . Would like to hear your thoughts on the MW climate and where Alimkhanuly may fit in the picture.
Thank You
J.B.
Bread’s Response: The difference historically between 154 and 160 is simple in this era. The fighters at 154lbs fought each other. The fighters at 160lbs did NOT. GGG was ducked for about 5 years. Him and Canelo did create a super fight but none of the other top guys fought each other.
I don’t think they’re all ducking but they don’t want to fight each other bad enough. Besides GGG and Canelo no one else has unified. In a historically rich division like 160lbs a big unification win can mean HOF. But we have champions in their 30s who are undefeated and we still don’t know where they are historically. I think all of the match ups you stated are BIG fights. Great fights but they don’t get the deals done. I’m not in the negotiating rooms. I don’t know what’s going on but the fights never get made at 160lbs.
I think Munguia is looking good and improving but he hasn’t taken a title shot yet. He moved up 3 years ago and he’s still choosing to fight non title fights. I don’t understand it.
Eubank was with the PBC. He had a fight with Matt Korobov then we haven’t seen him in a big fight.
Jermall Charlo has some big fights with the PBC but they seem to be at 168 not 160 with Plant and Benavidez. So I don’t know if he would risk his pay days.
Demetrius Andrade is 34 and he’s a tremendous talent but he hasn’t defeated any ex-world champions yet. He also seems to be stuck without big fights on Matchroom and DAZN. I have no idea why! Munguia fights on DAZN. So does GGG. So does Canelo! I don’t get why Andrade is never in a big fight.
Janibek is with Top Rank. I think he just won the interim WBO title. I hate interim titles, but he does seem to want to fight. I think Andrade or Munguia will have to deal with him eventually. Janibek definitely passes the eye ball test for me. He’s fast. He’s tall. He has pedigree. He’s confident. I don’t think he’s a huge puncher like GGG but he’s sharp and he can hurt you. I would make him the favorite over Munguia and Eubank. I think him and Andrade and Jermall are 50/50 fights. But they have to fight. No big fights ever happen at 160lbs if it isn’t Canelo and GGG making them. Hopefully something happens at 160 and the division gets a kick start.
Hasim Rahman Jr. had nearly 100 amateur fights and is a 12-1 professional at heavyweight. It looked to me like he was winning (against someone who’s undefeated after 22 fights) but got caught in his lone defeat. So if Jake Paul beats him, we have to take Paul seriously as a prospect… right?
Thanks as always!
-Chris
Bread’s Response: Is Jake Paul fighting Hasim Rahman? I didn’t know that. If so that’s a solid fight for both. I take Jake Paul serious. I can tell he trains hard. I can tell he has heavy hands. I can tell he has natural fighter’s instincts. He may act crazy and do some weird stuff for the cameras but he’s a serviceable fighter. I don’t think he will ever be a world champion or P4P level fighter. But for these entertainment fights where he is the A side and gets to pick his opponents, he’s going to be dangerous. Rahman Jr. has be very careful in this fight. He has pedigree and some skill but he was picked for a reason.
Breadman,
I saw an article the other day with the hitman, where the subject of pacman was brought up and how that fight would go. I know you sometimes prefer to avoid MM’s out of respect, but in this case the fact that one was a flyweight and the other ended up at cruiser, I’m not sure there ever been a meet in the middle quite like it. Anyway how would you see that fight going at welter/light middle, do you give the pacman a chance?
Joyce is still going along unnoticed and the more I see him, the more I think that he beats every other heavyweight out there minus fury and usyk, both of whom would need to fight very disciplined fights to get through 12 rounds with him. I know he is in his late 30s, but he has taken very little punishment and is still ‘young’ in that respect for a boxer. If Fury and Usyk were out of the picture, which seems possible given their respective situations in a year or so, can you see anyone stopping him? He seems to be the quintessential greater than the sum of his parts heavyweight, in that other than an elite chin and engine, nothing else really sticks out, can you give any other examples of similar boxers in any weight division, where the same applies? I know Monzon is the usual default answer.
Finally on to probably my favourite boxer right now in Boots, I’m struggling to find a boxer in my lifetime that passes the eyeball test better than him, minus Roy. Every fighter does however have their kryptonite and I just wonder if someone like Avanesyan might be his. To my untrained eye boots has a very similar style to Josh Kelly, although I think he is ultimately better in every aspect, but someone like Avanesyan, with a granite chin and who is unwilling to relent (much like Joyce), seems a very difficult task for anyone. It would be great to get your thoughts.
Thanks.
Bread’s Response: Boots passes the eye test extremely high to me. He has 99 percentile physical talent. He has great size, reflexes and physicality for the weight. He’s even handed although he scores most of his kos with his right hand. Boxing comes down to some simple things. And one of them is who can land the best punches most often. And who can avoid them. Boots can do both. Boots’s eyeball test is on par with Roy Jones’s, Mark “Too Sharp” Johnson’s, Pernell Whitaker’s, Floyd Mayweather’s, Ray Leonard’s and Mike Tyson’s. He’s that dynamic.
But boxing is more than the eye ball test. There are things we will just have to learn over time. Granite chinned, volume punchers are hard for everyone. Not just Boots. Let’s see what happens.
Hearns is just too big for Pacquioa. A fighter’s start out weight counts. Manny started out at a flyweight. Equally great but he’s too small for Hearns.
Joe Joyce has something. His sum total does outweigh his parts. He doesn’t seem athletic but he has athleticism. Have you ever seen someone so big do a back summersault. I have a theory on people who can flip. They ALL have a certain daring athleticism. It’s a gene you’re born with. Every single person I’ve ever met who can flip, has the gene. It may not be exclusive to them. Some non flippers may have it. But all flippers have it. Joyce is going to have to be dealt with. I will just leave it at that. There are certain things that can’t be measured. Determination, Ambition and Will. Joyce seems to have all of those in abundance….
Hey Bread – Was interested by your 70/30% prediction on Canelo/GGG in last week’s mailbag. Seemed like you were primarily concerned with GGGs diminishing gas tank, which in previous mailbags you’ve speculated potentially has to do with how long he trained in the altitude. I’m intrigued by this because I’ve felt like Canelo has a very similar issue…especially now that he’s moved up in weight. Vs. Plant, he started to gas (mouth open, less zip on his punches, less energy) midway through rd. 6. Vs. Bivol, he started to gas right after rd.4 ended. I see what you see re: Golovkin…the breathing, his eyes, late in fights… but I look at the guy across the ring from him and see very similar downfalls. The interesting thing to me about their gas tanks, now that you’ve brought it up, is the timing that they hit 0. From what I’ve noticed, Canelo starts strong and gasses out somewhere around rd. 5/6 depending on the quality/size of his opponent, spends 3-4 rounds recuperating and trying to steal rounds with late round sputters, before regaining a 2nd wind for the championship rounds.
On the other hand, Golovkin doesn’t seem to really get going until rd. 3-4, at which point he starts looking fatigued (and by that I mean gulping for air, resetting himself, etc) around rd. 7-8, at which point he relies on sheer willpower to not only push through the final 4-5 rounds, but do so at the level he was fighting at from rd.3-4 onward. Now… the interesting part (to me)… when Canelo fights guys that don’t let him recuperate during those middle rounds (GGG2 & Bivol), he never regains the energy he needs for the championship rounds. In the rematch w/ GGG, much is spoken about GGG’s unreal “comeback”. But I’m almost wondering if that comeback has less to do w/ GGG’s willpower and more to do with Canelo’s gas tank. A gas tank that has also, similar to GGG, diminished since Canelo has moved up. TBH, just purely on the subject of their gas tanks, I almost feel that the trilogy will play out identically to the rematch, with Canelo looking incredibly strong the first 3 rounds, a tide turning in rd. 4-5, and then a GGG “comeback” for the remainder of the fight.
I’m sensing a lot of “nervous energy” from Canelo, Bread. He’s coming off a loss no one expected. Acting irregularly in these pressers (at least, irregularly for himself). All the outside noise. Idk…all the pressure seems to be on him to deliver…and, not only deliver, but deliver in spectacular fashion. If GGG loses, he can always fall back on “age catches us all” and hang his hat on that. If Canelo loses…? There is far less to gain for Canelo by taking this fight than GGG. ‘shrugs’ Can’t help but feel like all the stars are aligning for us to see some spectacular performance by GGG here.
All the best.
Bread’s Response: You know what you’re talking about. You have great eyes. Canelo and GGG both have gas tank issues. But the only thing you failed to mention is Canelo is more offensively dynamic. He can land shots on GGG that GGG can’t or has not been able to land on him. Canelo is also better defensively in terms of reflexes. So he can afford to not have the energy in spots because he can steal a rest with his defense and fight in burst more. Where as GGG who isn’t as naturally talented has to be more consistent with his volume or else Canelo will get more credit for his work. It has already happened so I’m not speculating, I’m going by their results. Nevertheless your pick up on when they hit 0 and get their 2nd winds are spot on.
Hello Mr. Edwards,
I hope this finds you well. Thank you for doing this mailbag, I look forward to it every Saturday. You are put on an island and you can only take 10 previously recorded fights with you. What are they?
God bless you and yours.
Sincerely, Pat from New Jersey
Bread’s Response: Great Question!
In no order…
1.Bernard Hopkins vs Felix Trinidad
2.Ray Leonard vs Tommy Hearns 1,
3. Julio Cesar Chavez vs Edwin Rosario
4.Roberto Duran vs Hector Thompson
5. James Toney vs Mike McCallum 1
6.Salvador Sanchez vs Wildredo Gomez
7.Pernell Whitaker vs Jose Ramirez 2
8.Donald Curry vs Milton McCrory
9. Arturo Gatti vs Wilson Rodriguez
10. Ricardo Lopez vs anybody in his title reign at 105. He never had off nights.
Sup bread. Hope you are going great. Thanks for the mail bag – I’m sure it’s a big time commitment – I and many others look forward to it every single week. After watching Lubin v Fundora – I have Been thinking about a few questions about height and infighting. I always thought taller fighters could not be effective in-fighters? I was the taller guy and loved being on the inside, but it didn’t usually work for me. So I’d appreciate your insights: Who are other taller fighters I can watch that can perform well on the inside, or is Fundora just a unique athlete? After one of the pros took me aside and coached me on effective liver shots. As a kid I thought that was so cool. I now love body shots. What are highlight reel your favourites?
From memory I’ve got khan/maidana, mitchell/tszyu and tyson. Speaking of Tszyu – I noticed he sometimes had his lead extended out. I always found this annoying in sparring and surprisingly challenging to get under to the body. Is it considered disrespectful or a legit tactic? How does a fighter get around this? Lastly, with my favorites Hatton and now Porter retired – who is upcoming / contender that swarms like them and really works the body?
Thanks man have a great weekend.
Adam.
Bread’s Response: Some good up and coming swarmers. You mentioned Fundora. How about William Zepeda and Gary Antuane Russell. Both of those kids are going to be tough to deal with.
Kostay Tszyu was not tall but he fought long. He kept his lead hand extended and he was a terror. He PROBED with it to great effect. I think it’s a Eastern Block tactic that most American don’t use but it’s effective. It’s not disrespectful. It’s a tactic. Whoever doesn’t like it needs to stop it.
Another myth in boxing is taller fighters can’t fight inside. Fighting inside has more to do with natural ability than your height.
Pernell Whitaker was 5’5 and he was equally good on the outside and inside because he had major league reflexes and jab to fight outside. And know how to fight inside.
Willie Pep was short compared to Sandy Saddler. But Saddler the 5’8 featherweight was a brutal inside fighter. PeP the 5’5 fighter was one of the best outside fighters in history. I can go on about this. We have to open minded when describing a style.
Fighting on the inside comes down to a few things. Temperament. Inside fighters are killers. Their personalities dictate them being up close and personal. Also believe it or not a taller fighter hovering over you with pressure you is brutal. Antonio Margarito was a 5’11 inside fighter. Riddick Bowe was a 6’5 inside fighter. Diego Corrales was a 5’10 130lber who loved it there.
Also you have to realize that when taller fighters fight inside their opponent’s faces are right at their glove level. Fundora can’t miss his left uppercut because it’s right near everyone’s face. Athletes and humans in general adapt to their resources and gifts. And if you don’t have the reflexes to box from the outside. And you have the craft and temperament to fight on the inside you will. It’s why I never criticized Paul Williams for being an inside fighter. He didn’t have Tommy Hearn’s gifts. He often compared to Hearns but he wasn’t Hearns so he had to adapt his style to his gifts. There are plenty of taller inside killers. Don’t for one second believe taller fighters can’t fight inside. Just like you shouldn’t believe that a shorter fighter can’t fight outside.
8) Do you remember Tim Austin? When I was growing up, I really liked him. Nice southpaw style and could crack. I never hear him mentioned anymore, maybe because his run was kind of short? He lost to Rafael Marquez and his run was done. What do you think of him and his legacy?
Bread’s Response: Tim Austin was the best black American bantamweight we had seen since a prime Jeff Chandler and we haven’t seen one as good since. Austin was a tremendous fighter. He was champion for about 6 years and made a good amount of title defense. His run wasn’t short. 6 years is a nice amount of time to be a real world champion. He just didn’t get big fights so it’s hard to assess his legacy. He deserves HOF consideration.
Sup Bread.
I just got finished reading an article where Sugar Ray Leonard talks about his prep for the Hagler fight. He talked about how he used to have family/friends and entourages there to watch but when the Hagler fight was signed, he shut the door on everybody and went to work privately. Have you ever had any issues with having too many people in a camp? Lance
Bread’s Response: Yes I have and it’s a slippery slope. Believe it or not often times fighters don’t want to perform bad in front of family and friends. So they don’t slack in front of them in training. But energy is transferrable. And family and friends get to reap the benefits of their association with the fighter. But they don’t have to endure the hardwork that the fighter had to do to get to the point where it’s even worth being around the fighter.
You will have people come in the gym and have loud personal conversations that throw the fighter off. They will talk on their phones. They will make it about them and not about the fighter and his team. They ask questions about tickets and parking etc etc. And the fighter’s preparation is secondary. Only a small percentage of the entourages are not a distraction. A very small percentage. I don’t blame Leonard for closing the door. His legacy was on the line and he wanted that fight badly. He knew what he was up against.
Floyd Mayweather just basically said the same thing you said about Ryan Garcia and Canelo Alvarez. Mayweather said that Garcia shouldn’t say much about Canelo because Canelo has accomplished so much more. Mayweather is sort of an OG in this so maybe his stance is self serving to enhance his victory over but I actually agree with him. Garcia hasn’t earned the right to say much to Canelo.
Bread’s Response: What I actually said was Garcia has to be careful because now that he’s having a beef with a legend, his limited resume will be under the microscope. Whatever pressure he had on him just doubled.
But I want to be clear. I don’t know why they’re beefing and I’m not taking sides. It’s not my business and just because Canelo is a legend it doesn’t mean Garcia has to let him disrespect him. But I didn’t see or read Canelo say anything about him bad. I could be wrong but all I read him say was Garcia has to put more work in. But we are in the day of not being able to publicly criticize so…..that’s that.
I’m glad you didn’t write in about a lightweight who has never won a title, fighting a Tank in Canelo who has won titles from 154-175. My goodness the casuals kill me!
On another note I want to see Ryan Garcia fight a big fight. With either Devin Haney or Tank Davis. It’s overdue and the boxing world needs to see where he is in the ring. I think he’s an uber talent and I really like his reflexes, punch delivery, power and hand speed. But at the top level, small flaws show. And I want to see if he has the intangibles to overcome them.
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